Corrected Subtitles?

[DrJackson]

It is simple.
I've made some subs for some episodes of Deadliest Catch series.
There I was unable on some lines to keep them at 43 characters per line, without miss something else. (it was for HI version)
So, I had to choose: more characters per line or ... to cut something.
But If I've had choose last one, that means my sub would not be so good.
Simple.

I mean, I tried to put myself in place of a HI people, and watch how lips on someone on TV are moving, but nothing to read!
Anyway, it is just how I think things have to be, and I'm a newbie in this bussines.

doc.

[ilse]

It is simple.
I've made some subs for some episodes of Deadliest Catch series.
There I was unable on some lines to keep them at 43 characters per line, without miss something else. (it was for HI version)
So, I had to choose: more characters per line or ... to cut something.
But If I've had choose last one, that means my sub would not be so good.
Simple.

I mean, I tried to put myself in place of a HI people, and watch how lips on someone on TV are moving, but nothing to read!
Anyway, it is just how I think things have to be, and I'm a newbie in this bussines.

doc.

Ok, now I have the whole picture. It's a difficult question, because the 43 characters are not only a question of style but a question of "space". Most of the players doesn't allow more than 43 characters (mine is 40), and when there're more than these ones, the line gets splitted in two, one with the maximum number of characters allowed, and the second one with the rest, so the "result" is not correct. When we translate, we often have this problem, but we can solve it easly typing synonyms or looking for another way to express the meaning of the sentence, but in the english ones you can't do this kind of "trick", so I guess that to solve it, the work must be done with the timing. Taking into account that the average of words per second that a normal person can read are more or less 5 (aprox. 25 letters), and that HI people reads quickly than most of the people because they're used to do it to "survive", you could "play" with the timing stealing seconds or fractions of them in one scene and adding an additional one to show the rest of the sentence immediately after or before. To read, for example (grunting) you don't need 1 second, you will need 0,600 if you place the (grunting) immediately before the sentence you will gain 10 characters, and the result will be the same, all the information, but "playing" with the time.

I don't know if you get my point and if it's easy to make the things on that way.

Your turn :lol:

[Kerensky]

It's a difficult question, because the 43 characters are not only a question of style but a question of "space". Most of the players doesn't allow more than 43 characters (mine is 40), and when there're more than these ones, the line gets splitted in two, one with the maximum number of characters allowed, and the second one with the rest, so the "result" is not correct

Your turn

ilse, try TAC to split the lines to have 40 chars as maximum :P

[ilse]

ilse, try TAC to split the lines to have 40 chars as maximum

"In christian" please.

(Spanish joke)

[DrJackson]

[...]
I don't know if you get my point and if it's easy to make the things on that way.

Your turn

, I get it, OK.

[...]
Most of the players doesn't allow more than 43 characters (mine is 40), and when there're more than these ones, the line gets splitted in two, one with the maximum number of characters allowed, and the second one with the rest, so the "result" is not correct.
[...]

I have Win7 as OS and I use Windows Media Player as default player. If someone just Google it a little, will find something called Codec for Win7 (check HERE), codecs that allow WMP to play .mkv, .avi, .flv, .mp4, .m4v, .m4a, .ogm, .flac, .ape, .aac, .ogg, .mpc files and many more.
Also, allow WMP to show more than 43 characters per line, but this option will depends only by user.

[...]
but in the english ones you can't do this kind of "trick", so I guess that to solve it, the work must be done with the timing.
[...]

That is true.
And here will start the issues. Working to have a max. line lenght with 43 characters, sometimes we have to make compromises with timing.
Therefore, it could be situations when, having a 40-43 line, dialogues are so fast that lines are displayed just for fraction of second. And that one could be for 3, 4, 5 lines in a row.

Hmmm., seems I've lost what hb was tried to start and I'm now on Sync field !
OOOPS!

doc.

[ilse]

I have Win7 as OS and I use Windows Media Player as default player. If someone just Google it a little, will find something called Codec for Win7 (check HERE), codecs that allow WMP to play .mkv, .avi, .flv, .mp4, .m4v, .m4a, .ogm, .flac, .ape, .aac, .ogg, .mpc files and many more.
Also, allow WMP to show more than 43 characters per line, but this option will depends only by user.

Yep, but I don't watch the series in the PC, I copy them in a hard drive and connect it to the TV. It's better to watch Alexander Skarsgaard on a 37 inches screen than on 20.

That is true.
And here will start the issues. Working to have a max. line lenght with 43 characters, sometimes we have to make compromises with timing.
Therefore, it could be situations when, having a 40-43 line, dialogues are so fast that lines are displayed just for fraction of second. And that one could be for 3, 4, 5 lines in a row.

Well, then you have a problem and I'm not able to help you. If I "imagine" something more, I will let you know. Who knows... maybe someday inspiration will hit me while I'm dreaming.

[DrJackson]

[...]
Who knows... maybe someday inspiration will hit me while I'm dreaming.

Ok, thanks, till then... sleep well !

doc.

[Linus75]

I know I'm new (?), as a corrector, but I know a lot about "Quick readind" ...
When I correct a sub, I don't UL it until I check it "live". Or I don't check it as 'Corrected'.
Sometimes, I watch a scene many times, just to adjust the lines, the timelines, whatever ...
I split the lines when it is time to do it, not because they have 4? caracters ...
So, when I UL a sub, I REALLY checked the spell, the grammar, and the hability
to the viewer to understand what the caracter is saying, in the better and easier way possible.
But it takes time, because sometimes you have to change the sync (even a few 1/100 sec),
or it's best to split and add a line (I HATE that).
So, the real and last question is :
What do you want ?
Shit & Quick, or Good & Later ?
That's the question.

[honeybunny]

I'd say upload as soon as possible a sub as good as possible, and if when u watch the episode you find mistakes, either use view and edit or re-upload the sub :)

[spyderspyder]

While timeliness can be given some significance, I reckon that quality should take priority over speed.

Addicted should not be "the quickest - and the best", but "the best - and the quickest".
It would also make life a little easier on certain people whom, I guess, must at times be running themselves ragged!

After all, it's not like Addic7ed is in competition with anybody (other than itself - and the howling mob on the 'Comments' page!).

Interestingly, I have noticed that with popular and current shows, there is often many more downloads before correction, than after correction - another argument for not rushing.

s.

[honeybunny]

Interestingly, I have noticed that with popular and current shows, there is often many more downloads before correction, than after correction - another argument for not rushing.

I'd say that quality without a proper speed is of no use. I never upload uncorrected subs, but on the other hand, u'll always be able to find mistakes.
Correcting Dexter after having synced it takes me ~30 mins. But at night, when i watch it, I correct the mistakes i see. Only for 3 episodes of the 9 more than 5 corrections were needed. (the 3 needed 13, 13, 15). So you can do a quick and good correction as well.

[spyderspyder]

HB.

What you say makes good sense - but only with regard to the quality of the corrector, of which there are not just good, bad and indifferent, but those who seem to put more emphasis on one aspect than the other.

For example, there are some whose checked subs are almost flawless, but there are others from whom I regularly expect to see a rich crop of spelling mistakes, often of the most appalling nature - and these are mistakes that even the spell checker of SE doesn't miss.

This could suggest that the correctors in mind are adding (or have added) the misspelled words to the SE dictionary, or perhaps are not doing a spell check.

How else are they present in the "corrected" files?

s.

[DrJackson]

[...]
are mistakes that even the spell checker of SE doesn't miss.

This could suggest that the correctors in mind are adding (or have added) the misspelled words to the SE dictionary, or perhaps are not doing a spell check.
[...]

You're right !

I want to ask you something, I'm try to clarify myself as I tried to find out why should be no more that 42 characters per line :

Let's suppose that in some American language subtitles for some series, we meet words that, I don't know, or are misspelled, or are mispronounced, or that words has appeared in vocabularies without telling me .

In this case (private ofcourse), how do we do, to match video and audio: we will put the correct word or the "spoken" word ?

doc.

[honeybunny]

In this case (private ofcourse), how do we do, to match video and audio: we will put the correct word or the "spoken" word ?

Spoken. It gives the right color to the character.

[spyderspyder]

This is something I have frequently thought about: should a subtitle show the 'spoken' word, or the 'scripted' one?

I can't decide, myself, what should be preferred.

Often when one sees an actual script, it will be seen that the written differs from the phonological.
The script is often written in 'proper' words, e.g., "For crying's sake, I'm out of here...", but spoken as, say, "For cryin' sakes, I'm outta here..." Which one should the sub. show?

For someone who has never heard spoken English, or for whom subtitles are a learning device, the original written form would surely be preferred (and is common in subs. for BBC programmes.) I suggest that these are the people who should dictate what should, or should not, be.

I haven't looked, but I bet that French subs never show 'oui' as 'way'(or however the argot would be spelled).


As for line lengths, it seems that some people watch TV programmes on a PC, and for them line lengths need to be optimised to match typical display settings, etc.
Anyone using adjusted display settings for, say, eyesight reasons, will lose out on this, as will many of those who re-code the files to DVD to watch on TV with a DVD player.


s.

[DrJackson]

Ok honey, but I think we also should consider spyder's arguments.

doc.

[spyderspyder]

My 'arguments' are for consideration, only - I am undecided myself as to what should prevail.

What I would argue is that the people who should be saying what should/not be, are the customers.
The people who use the subs. should dictate their form and nature, not the people who write them.

s.

[DrJackson]

My 'arguments' are for consideration, only - I am undecided myself as to what should prevail.

What I would argue is that the people who should be saying what should/not be, are the customers.
The people who use the subs. should dictate their form and nature, not the people who write them.

s.

Well, I preffer to watch a sub, with correct words, as a way to improve my English language knowledge, but... is not up to me!
Thanks

doc.

[honeybunny]

Well I didn't mean to distort the spelling of the words, but over 90% of the US subs have "cryin'" "lyin'" etc.

But if a Jamaican is speaking for example... I won't go for "Gwaan chat wit di gyal dem" (= Go chat with the girls), but I'd leave "dem" instead of "them" and "dat" instead of "that" if it's how it appears in the script.

[spyderspyder]

Doc:
"...but... is not up to me!"
Yes it is - you are a user of subs., so you should have your say as such.

HB:
It's a tricky one - if you ask 100 people, you'd probably get 100 different opinions; but I would generally agree with your last post.

s