Reply to hemlig's posts on The Orville S02E11

[Costa Dax]

This topic is meant as a reply to hemlig's posts on The Orville - S02E11 - Lasting Impressions :

@Costa Dax: Since the Name (Bortus) already ends with an s, there shall NOT be an Apostrophe ( ' ) and then an Extra s at the end, as you had changed Line 641 to read. Line 641 shall read "our cowboy program or Bortus' sex lagoon.".

@somejohn: About Line 830; Why have you changed the existing -- and Correct! -- English word "roomful" to the two similar English words "room full", no need to change an Ok wording.

Well, hemlig, I know you mean well but you're wrong on all counts. Bear in mind that I'm an English Language university professor, graduate of English Language and English Literature from the University of Manchester (England), and that I have lived in several English-speaking countries (the UK, the US, Canada, and New Zealand). English is not a second language to me.

Now, you seem to ignore the fact that the transcript is not a sum of grammatically correct sentences but a written representation of what is actually being said even if that is not grammatically correct. If someone says "hisself" (instead of "himself") or "themself" (instead of "themselves") or "supposably"/"supposely"/"supposingly" (instead of "supposedly") then that's what should appear in the transcript. In this particular case, the actor says Bortus's (pronounced /ˈbor.tu.sɨz/) not Bortus' (pronounced /ˈbor.tus/), so that's what one should find in the transcript. The genitive case and the correct use of the apostrophe is something many native English speakers (especially Americans) struggle with. In many US movies and TV shows, the actors (meaning the writers) are oblivious to the rules concerning the correct use of the genitive s if a word ends with an -s. Equally oblivious are the people who make the transcripts. That's why there are so many mistakes and inconsistencies. But The Orville is one of the few exceptions where the actors make correct use of the genitive case when they speak; so kudos to the writers!

If a noun in singular ends with an -s, you ALWAYS add apostrophe+s in order to make the genitive case. Examples: "a bus's taillight", "the actress's performance", "the boss's decision", "a noble gas's atomic mass", "Charles's wife", "James's things", "Ross's girlfriend", "Tess's boyfriend", "Chris's brother", etc. So, "Bortus's sex lagoon" is not only what is being said but also what is actually grammatically correct. If you want to refresh the rules concerning the genitive case and the use of the apostrophe, here are some links:

• https://www.englisch-hilfen.de/en/grammar/genitiv.htm
• https://www.grammar.cl/rules/genitive-case.htm
• https://grammar.yourdictionary.com/punctuation/apostrophe-rules.html
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_possessive

Classical proper names ending in -s (Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Biblical, etc.) also follow the general rule, for example  "Cronus's children", "Leonidas's spear", "Odysseus's son", "Zeus's infidelity", "Artemis's bow", "Eris's golden apple of discord", "Iris's greatest fear", "Isis's husband", etc. Nevertheless, as a mere convention, they may also commonly be used with just the apostrophe without the genitive s. Examples: "Jesus' disciples", "Augustus' guards", "Sophocles' plays", "Pericles' Funeral Oration", "Achilles' heel", etc. Sometimes even the apostrophe is dropped, for example "Achilles heel" or "Achilles tendon". Bear in mind that this is just a convention which many accept as equally correct but which is rejected by many notable academicians and scholars who insist that the only correct expressions are "Jesus's", "Augustus's", and so on.

Now, somejohn's edit is also correct. It is true that the word "roomful" exists. Nevertheless, the phrase "a room full of..." is overwhelmingly more common than the phrase "a roomful of...". But that is irrelevant. What's relevant is again what is actually being said. If you listen really carefully you may notice a small pause between "room" and "full", meaning that the actor actually pronounces two words instead of one. But you have to have an experienced ear to get it.

I also noticed that you made a third edit. You split a sentence with a total of 39 characters into two lines ("Oh, my God, it was so nice to meet you."). I'm sorry but that is the definition of pointless editing. SubtitleEdit allows lines up to 43 characters long and Addic7ed allows lines up to 40 characters long for its subs. So a line with 39 characters is perfectly fine either way. I didn't undo that edit because I didn't want to add to the already unnecessary editing you made.

Anyway, that's almost all. Obviously, I undid the first two edits you made. For future reference, if you have a problem with someone's edits, you can contact them or leave a post on the episode's page with your concerns BEFORE you undo their edits. It's more respectful and, this way, the subs won't end up with a bunch of unnecessary edits. But I get that you felt sure about your edits and you meant well. So, from my part, everything is peachy!

Edited September 21, 2019 by Costa Dax