Subtitles Stopped

[effemmeffe]

I just want to express my simpathy.

[Thundera]

I've worked for 8 years in the anime subtitling scene, and I know how it's like to have your hard work stolen. But I agree with Jester. You must think in your priorities and what's your final goal in subtitling. By subtitling, you're helping people that can't understand by listening but can understand by reading that language. On top of that you're helping deaf people.

I think it's not only that spanish site that's "stealing" your subtitles. Since you're providing english subtitles always fast, it's happening worldwide. I'm from Brazil, and I'm almost certain some groups from here are translating your scripts to PT-BR and removing the credits. But no one can prove that, since it's another language and the timings and number of lines can be easily edited with a decent subtitle program..

As it is said in my country, "são ossos do ofício". Of course stealing is a bad thing, but you have to get used to it if you really like what you're doing. You certainly will never lose who's supporting you.

[mikelete]

I'm very sorry to hear that. But I think you chose a wrong solution to deal with this situation. There will be always thieves and you cannot change that.

There will be allways thieves, the problem is when the moderator does nothing. And believe me, HB tried to solve this with good manners, but didn't work.

The decision you made is emotional, not rational. What would I do if I were you? Well, you have some money from advertisers. Order DDoS if you want a revenge.

So, that will be a "rational" decision according to you? Nice...

[thenco]

rage dissapated - rash things said - not a great end to the week

why doesnt addic7ed go invite only like a private **** **** site? would slow these cowboys down.

[Netzach]

Well this is my first reply on this forum so i will be clear, i have nothing with substitulos.es and i'm not going to talk about what they do, remove or copy.

All this mess seems to me like a baby rage quit, the work you do is far more greater than subtitulos.es so by stopping your work you are damaging innocent users. I can understand the reasons and specially if someone is earning money from your work. I am administrator of another spanish community (not related to tv shows) and i do subs almost every friday a few months ago a "great" company "stole" some work of mine, what did i do? tell them to, at least, give me a call. Words have no copyright and i don't do what i do for glory, money, or reconnaissance I do this because i don't want to let in the ignorance those people who doesn't understand English.and give them the chance to have the information in his mother language.

I didn't stop working on it, other communities stole our job, because i also have good people translating interviews or articles and we didn't stop working. Yeah we don't like it, and we were (and we are) angry but nothing except the original owners of the content we translate will stop us from do what we are doing because the people thank us for that work and so far even the original owners thank us.

So my point is, screw them, we do what we do and we will stop at nothing because the people thank us and we are proud of our work, that's the internet spirit, that's my opinion. Reconsider your posture.

If i made some misspell please tell me, although i do subs i'm not very good writing in english from scratch.

[mazels]

i agree with some people that is not the solution..if the thousands of people around the world that you help understand tv shows and are grateful to you guys are not enough then i think you should just stop subbing cause its seem its not for you guys which is something i would hate cause i love your subs and without them i cant watch any shows.....anyways i hope everything can come back to normal soon and just a question i see on tvsubtitles website that fringe episode 7 is subbed and it say its from addic7ed just curious cause you said you stoped and its not on here....

[supeindesu]

This is as ridiculous as can be... Those who throw sh*t to subtitulos.es are the same ones that just weeks before started trolling on their site, crying because people corrected their translations, and are the same ones that were posting the translations of addic7ed on their site while there already were their own translations...

Both sites are taking fame for the work of people like me that translates in their spare time by the price of nothing, but there's a little group that considers themselves almost like "gods/goddes" of Translation World... those make me sad, because they think they deserve more respect than other people who also contributes... Shame on you, you're destroying the comunity sense...

[meixente]

Well this is my first reply on this forum so i will be clear, i have nothing with substitulos.es and i'm not going to talk about what they do, remove or copy.

All this mess seems to me like a baby rage quit, the work you do is far more greater than subtitulos.es so by stopping your work you are damaging innocent users. I can understand the reasons and specially if someone is earning money from your work. I am administrator of another spanish community (not related to tv shows) and i do subs almost every friday a few months ago a "great" company "stole" some work of mine, what did i do? tell them to, at least, give me a call. Words have no copyright and i don't do what i do for glory, money, or reconnaissance I do this because i don't want to let in the ignorance those people who doesn't understand English.and give them the chance to have the information in his mother language.

I didn't stop working on it, other communities stole our job, because i also have good people translating interviews or articles and we didn't stop working. Yeah we don't like it, and we were (and we are) angry but nothing except the original owners of the content we translate will stop us from do what we are doing because the people thank us for that work and so far even the original owners thank us.

So my point is, screw them, we do what we do and we will stop at nothing because the people thank us and we are proud of our work, that's the internet spirit, that's my opinion. Reconsider your posture.

If i made some misspell please tell me, although i do subs i'm not very good writing in english from scratch.

It's obvious that ther will be some stealing, but sometimes you need to make a stand for your rights. Maybe this measure is not going to solve anything, but at least some people will know the truth and came to addic7ed. Obviously if addi7ed stop releasing subs for long, another site will step forward and try to fill in addic7ed shoes, but I think that HB and the staff has considered everything that we have said here before doing it. They probably know better than most of us the whole implications of their acts, and even knowing they decided to do it.
Hoping everything solves quickly, regard HB and company.

[runa99]

Hi i've been using this site for almost 2 years now safe to say i'm addicted to addic7ed, it would be very sad to see if this situation maintains causing others problems on others site who don't steal the subs and credit them properly, as i have read there are quite a few out there from various countries, their users are feeling the consequences because of it while in fact they probably don't associate with addic7ed directly.
I'm from Indonesia and we're all encouraging to fellow indonesian addic7ed users to email subtitulos.es whether it helps or not.
We extremely depend on addic7ed releases both for english subs or the very few indonesian ones you have on your site, since we don't have our own local site that provide tv subs to begin with.

Indonesia supports addic7ed.com.

[Kerensky]

This is as ridiculous as can be... Those who throw sh*t to subtitulos.es are the same ones that just weeks before started trolling on their site, crying because people corrected their translations, and are the same ones that were posting the translations of addic7ed on their site while there already were their own translations...

Both sites are taking fame for the work of people like me that translates in their spare time by the price of nothing, but there's a little group that considers themselves almost like "gods/goddes" of Translation World... those make me sad, because they think they deserve more respect than other people who also contributes... Shame on you, you're destroying the comunity sense...

Wow, you precisely are the perfect example of all the complains we've sent to their admin (and never got replied)

I've seen you copy, line by line the translation made it here, paste it in their translation and claim it to be yours.

[meixente]

i agree with some people that is not the solution..if the thousands of people around the world that you help understand tv shows and are grateful to you guys are not enough then i think you should just stop subbing cause its seem its not for you guys which is something i would hate cause i love your subs and without them i cant watch any shows.....anyways i hope everything can come back to normal soon and just a question i see on tvsubtitles website that fringe episode 7 is subbed and it say its from addic7ed just curious cause you said you stoped and its not on here....

Probably someone impersonating addic7ed trying to get the prestigious that Afddic7ed has. 've seen before "Addic7ed" releases that were crap, because they put addic7ed in the name in order to make the people think that they are quality subs.

[bahurupiya]

WARNING: I am Brevity Impaired. If "TL;DR" comes easily to your fingers, or you find reading more than a sentence or two unpleasant, displeasing, or difficult, please scroll down to the next message.


In a Facebook comment, I referred to you all as "the hardest working people in show business."

Performing such a labor-intensive and meticulous service day after day after day is a level of philanthropy and dedication that few people have the capacity to do.

For those of us who benefit from it, the privilege of seeing that extraordinary spirit of goodwill in action far outweighs the benefit of the subtitles themselves, which, as several people have pointed out, is considerable.

For people with hearing impairments, for people who don't read English, the subtitles make it possible for them to enjoy watching some of the most popular TV shows in the world.

As a Good Deed, providing subtitles for TV shows is a lot bigger than some of you who work so hard doing it may realize.

It's not just a nice little extra, or a convenience.

It may be popular in some circles to scoff at pop culture, but it's a legitimate field, an undeniable force, and pop culture literacy - or lack of it, can impact just about every area of peoples' lives, including their careers.

Whether it should or not, being able to join in the water cooler conversation about last night's episode of House or Big Bang Theory can have an effect on whether someone is hired, promoted or laid off.

It can make a supervisor or boss more accessible, outside the workplace, in purely social settings it can fill awkward pauses and even spark discussion of serious issues, help people get to know each other better, a process which can lead to lifelong friendships, even lifelong romance.

Between individuals from different countries, cultures, faith traditions, creeds, so far apart in every way that they have literally nothing to say to each other - or nothing to say to each other that won't start a fight - laughing at Sheldon's wackiness can be the only common ground they have, the only thing that they both recognize, let alone enjoy, the only thing that makes it possible for them to see each other as human beings. That's heavy shit. That can save lives.

"Stealing" work that someone has done, not driven by desire for money, or even need for surivival, but simply out of the goodness of their hearts, as a kindness to their fellow earth residents, is pretty high on the scumbag scale.

No one has suggested that the administrator of subtitulos.es pay addic7ed for the privilege of using their work, or even refrain from using it, merely that they acknowledge addic7ed as the source, or as one of the contributors, in cases where parts of an addic7ed are used in a subtitle done by someone at subtitulos.es.

That's not setting the bar very high. That's just common decency.

From what I have read here, I do not get a sense that the subtitulos.es administrator has a strong interest in resolving this conflict.

On the contrary, the picture that emerges is of an individual to whom it is essentially a matter of indifference whether the subtitlers on his site credit addic7ed, whether his site and addic7ed enjoy a productive, mutually beneficial, or even a cordial relationship.

Try as I might, the only conclusion I am able to reach is that he is also indifferent on the question of whether addic7ed does subtitles, releases subtitles, or, I regret to say, whether addic7ed exists at all.

If this is true, it puts addic7ed between the proverbial rock and hard place.

The problem is caused by subtitulos.es administrator. Yet he has no incentive, no reason, to change his behavior or his customs because addic7ed wishes it, or frankly, because I and however many million others who benefit from addic7ed subtitles wish it.

What does addic7ed have that he wants?

Sadly, nothing.

It may be convenient to use their subtitles, in whole or in part, but because the commitment to excellence and quality, as well as standards of behavior, are so different between the two that addic7ed has nothing with which to negotiate.

For all we know, he doesn't care whether people download "his" subtitles, some of us can attest that he certainly doesn't care a whole hell of a lot about the quality of the subtitles on his site.

This dude doesn't even value addic7ed's work enough to make sure they get credit for it, so there is no reason to believe that he values its existence. He'll take it if it's there for him to take, but if it's not, he'll substitute something inferior or go without.

If addic7ed asked my opinion - which they haven't - I'm just throwing it out there anyway

I would advise them not to postpone any important respiratory activity while waiting for the subtitulos.es administrator to experience such suffering that he reaches out to addic7ed with assurances that he will take immediate action to ensure that any subtitle containing ANY addic7ed work includes addic7ed in the credits, if they will only please, please, resume releasing subtitles because without them his totally suck.

In contrast, I see a lot of messages here from people who are scrambling, looking for something - anything - WE could do that will cause addic7ed to resume releasing subtitles, because we ARE suffering, though not even a day has passed, and without subtitles, watching our favorite shows is either less enjoyable - and of course, for the hearing impaired without strong English language lip-reading skills, watching their favorite shows is rendered virtually impossible.

It is lamentable that there are people in the world who would steal the work of a volunteer, work done only for the public good, and not credit it - and go so far as to BAN the volunteer from their site when she attempted to discuss the subject.

It is beyond frustrating that there are people in the world whose values are so far from our own that pretty much any conflict is an automatic impasse - because we don't have anything they want, because nothing we have has value for them.

So, if addic7ed were a big company, and they brought me in as a high-priced consultant, it would be unpleasant, but the only ethical recommendation I could make is this:

Because addic7ed has nothing he wants, the only thing there is to consider is what addic7ed wants - specifically what do they want more - credit ffrom subtitulos.es for all the hard work they do, or credit, admiration, awe, and sincere and heartfelt gratitude from the people all over the world whose lives are touched, enhanced, improved, and sometimes, changed forever - even saved - by that work?

[honeybunny]

How many times should I say that this was not a rushed decision taken in the heat of the moment? Both me and Alex tried to contact Gabriel several times. The stolen credits would not have been the reason to take this measure. You say we shouldn't care about being ignored, about being banned, about being censored. You say all we should do is please you and continue to do our selfless work. You say we destroy the community. You say we are on internet and we have no rules because everybody's stealing.

Isn't that easy?

[Netzach]

It's obvious that ther will be some stealing, but sometimes you need to make a stand for your rights. Maybe this measure is not going to solve anything, but at least some people will know the truth and came to addic7ed. Obviously if addi7ed stop releasing subs for long, another site will step forward and try to fill in addic7ed shoes, but I think that HB and the staff has considered everything that we have said here before doing it. They probably know better than most of us the whole implications of their acts, and even knowing they decided to do it.
Hoping everything solves quickly, regard HB and company.

Weird two spanish guys writing english

Obviously they considered everything but opinions from people "outside" the poblem, or with same experience and different way to solve the problem will be good for them. They shall reconsider because they are thinking in "those guys who stole" instead of "those tons of user out there in the net".

I said to my team this: "the only think we can hope for what we are doing is the good will of other sites and persons posting our work with the source"

To HoneyBunny: no, don't please me i'm just talking from my experience obviously different people take different ways to solve the same problem. I'm not saying how do you shall solve this also i don't use your subs but i appreciate your effort

[kabracity]

First of all: I always have fun when I read comments made by childish hackers wannabe, talking about DDoSing, with nicknames like Pr0Us3rHaCk0rz or whatever. Half of times, they don't even have a clue what they're talking about, just try to sound smart. I guess it's ok, one day they'll grow up and stop their bullshit.

One day, they'll learn that war is fun in videogames, but in RL, when you're dealing with people, it's always better trying to come to an agreement. The thing is, regarding this messy story between addic7ed and subtitulos, there's almost nothing to agree in, as I think both websites share the same values. Gabriel stated that he always respected both works: own and other's work. And in the end, that's what we are discussing here.

As I said, I totally understand the concern of honeybunny, getting your work stolen by others is really annoying; transcription and sync. of subs is indeed a hard work and the credits should remain untouched (even if it's internet and as someone said, people can do whatever they want, it just doesn't feel right). But I think the point is that you have to stop thinking that subtitulos.es, as a website, has the policy of removing credits: that's not true at all. After reading both sides of the story (I think having both sides is always a must before having an opinion), what Gabriel can be blamed for is in the failure of preventing/correcting this behaviour amongst the users.

As someone already posted, Gabriel is the only one managing the whole website, that's a lot of work as the site grows dy by day. It's not that he doesn't want to delegate, but the system (open wiki) has its limitation regarding moderation and delegation of permissions. Currently, he is working on a new website, so in a short time there will be a new one, and we will be able to control things in a more efficient way. Just to make it clear: the core of subtitulos.es community does not approve credits removal. We respect (and I personally admire) Addic7ed and honeybunny's work.

I truly believe things will change with the new system, let's hope it will be soon enough. I've already suggested to add the rule of never removing credits to the website, in order to avoid it. And that if someone does and the fact is reported, actions should be taken inmediately.

Best regards.

P.S: Even if I understand the situation, I must confess I was a little disappointed with the statement of "mediocre website", coming from hb, which I've admired because of her work for a long time.

[alex28]

awesome post, bahurupiya.

Thing is, i said in an email (i never got a reply, of course) i sent Gabriel (subtitulos.es admin)... if he doesn't want to keep the credits IN THE ENGLISH SUBTITLES THEY TAKE FROM US... just stop using them.
The idea was simple. You remove credits, you stop using them. We ain`t using their subtitles.

Apparently it's hard for some people to understand. Someone kept saying we should make an agreement. Question is HOW? Gabriel NEVER contacted me or anyone from the team. IF we try to contact him, we`ll either get banned (if we do it on his forums) or we`ll either wait years for a reply. The story has 2 ways it can be over

1. Stop uploading addic7ed subtitles on subtitulos.es. If a moderator (yeah, that's Gabriel since i`m pretty sure he's the only one in charge there) sees an Addic7ed release there, he should delete it ASAP. Same if subtitulos.es releases are uploaded on Addic7ed.

2. Upload Addic7ed subtitles on subtitulos keeping the credits in English files.

It can't get easier.

[supeindesu]

Wow, you precisely are the perfect example of all the complains we've sent to their admin (and never got replied)

I've seen you copy, line by line the translation made it here, paste it in their translation and claim it to be yours.

LOL, you are paranoid. I'm a translator who started at wikititles. If you want, ask ilse if I ain't a translator... But I think she's as paranoid as you.

If you wan't to take a look at my profile in subtitulos.es, there it is http://www.subtitulos.es/user/13902

And thanks for the negative voting... it makes me feel better from where they come.

[honeybunny]

@bahurupiya I understand your point of view. And yes, it's very well pointed out, but allow me, after all the rational attempts to cool off with one that may seem irrational, emotional. All we want is an answer to what we've complained about. Is it really so hard to understand? Does that make us lame, blackmailing, vulgar, as they called us?

Look what users post in their forum

"Well, if i get banned from here, i don't care, i've removed the credits... and now i feel bad about it, however not saying that will be wrong for my part [...] I promise to do better if i don't get banned."

Does this call a rational decision? Please, all , enlighten me, which of you claiming to ignore everything could do the same?

[alex28]

First of all, it's WIKISUBTITLES.
Second, wikisubtitles is gone. Since 3 years ago actually. I respect wikisubtitles for changing the way subtitles are translating, but IT'S GONE. Get over it.

saying that subtitles are stolen everyday and not doing anything about it is bad. It's like saying: hey, i`m robbed everyday but i don't care.

I really wonder how you`d feel if i took every line you translated and said it's mine. Who'd be the bitchy little guy then, huh?

[meixente]

Weird two spanish guys writing english

Obviously they considered everything but opinions from people "outside" the poblem, or with same experience and different way to solve the problem will be good for them. They shall reconsider because they are thinking in "those guys who stole" instead of "those tons of user out there in the net".

I said to my team this: "the only think we can hope for what we are doing is the good will of other sites and persons posting our work with the source"

To HoneyBunny: no, don't please me i'm just talking from my experience obviously different people take different ways to solve the same problem. I'm not saying how do you shall solve this also i don't use your subs but i appreciate your effort

Weird indeed. It's so obvious from my writing that I'm Spanish?
AS HoneyBunny reply a few post ahead, the decision was not made in a rush. But the question here is that making a translation of a subtitle for rxample takes a lot of time, in my case about 1h each 100 lines in the best case scenario. And the last time that tried to make a sub file from scratch, 5 min took me 2 hours. Sync a sub properly takes a lot of time, and the sync work should be thank even in the translations. Keeping a site this big, update every minute, having the latest releases it's a huge work. REally I think I will never thank enough Addic7ed for their work.